Commercial Drone Pilot vs. Recreational Pilot: Will there be a difference ?// #MAIL-74

Commercial Drone Pilot vs. Recreational Pilot: Will there be a difference ?// #MAIL-74

Happy Wednesday people. Great #mail Drone question this week, Will there be a difference between Commercial Drone pilots & Recreational Drone pilots from November 2019?
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44 Comments

  1. Douthinkesawus TV on November 8, 2021 at 9:19 am

    Whilst I understand the insurance bit, I cannot help thinking that the insurance companies will load the policies so much that it will kill off the hobbyist fliers

  2. Dave Kelly on November 8, 2021 at 9:19 am

    Great video as usual..

  3. Isle of Mull FPV on November 8, 2021 at 9:22 am

    If they are worried about privacy, how does that argument tally with the 250 gram weight limit? What has weight to do with privacy? If the issue is privacy why is this hysteria limited to drones, why not all cameras?

  4. SC Aerials - Steve Carpenter on November 8, 2021 at 9:23 am

    Dylan, Another great #MAIL episode! The snake keeps winding and winding for all the unknown restrictions and laws for UAV pilots, no matter where you live. Thanks for covering this information, who knows when I may need to know these laws, especially if we visit the UK next year; guess I better be prepared too! As usual, your coverage of these questions is outstanding and I thank you for keeping the drone community involved and updated, Well Done Mate!

  5. Pegasus Drone Media on November 8, 2021 at 9:23 am

    Totally off topic Dylan. Why do you choose to make your topics of video about DJI? Clearly from your mavic 2 unboxing you are excited about this product and fair play to you. I was DJI fan boy too but after discovering the Yuneec H520 and then the first to receive the H Plus in the UK I shall never go back to DJI. Just curious as to your passion for DJI. Have you tried other brands or even the 520 or H Plus? If you wish to make this question one of your #mail questions feel free. Regards Chris

  6. Neil Bosson on November 8, 2021 at 9:23 am

    Insurance I agree fully, however am I right that come November 2019, the test for hobbyist is going to be a safety compitance online test, not a pilot accompanying test?

  7. Andrew Small on November 8, 2021 at 9:25 am

    Good question however I think there would be some backlash from those who have spent 5 days of their life and around £1,500 on a quality NQE training course, endured gruelling ground school , air law, air space operating principles, meteorology navigation & charts, principles of flight, aircraft knowledge etc plus multiple practical flight tests to have recreational flights afforded the same privileges on the basis of a reduced knowledge & training requirement. The consultation has as many holes as a battered colander by way of omissions. So what is a drone seems the Dept of Transport think it’s only a quadcopter or multi-rotor aircraft? RC model airplane clubs have been strapping on cameras, using FPV and return to home technology for years* On a last note if I were DJI CEO I’d be seeing the "bigger picture" and asking engineers to concentrate on stripping down the "spark" to loose 51g as a priority if they want to still make money. Keep up the hard work your doing a grand job. *https://youtu.be/fOrkYB0KbwI

  8. RMTV77 on November 8, 2021 at 9:28 am

    Totally agree with the liabilty insurance cover.
    Especially in this world of everyone out to sue you for just about anything you do. (sadly)
    I have liability insurance here in the UK for just £19.99 a year. Its a no-brainer. hope its OK to add the link.
    https://www.fpvuk.org/

  9. OldMan FPV on November 8, 2021 at 9:28 am

    #mail
    #RANT inbound! i have long been a member of two hobbies that you could say have small families.
    1/ Skydiving.
    2/indoor tunnel flying.

    I took a break from skydiving for 8 years and when i came back to the sport it had changed massively, H&S gone mad, (people were dying, so rightly so) but everything cost money. by that i mean training for everything! Before people just gave their advice freely (mostly) and you taught yourself a little as well. now you need a badge to do anything, and that badge costs money!!! so now everything is broken down into tiny lessons and you pay through the nose because you are a captive audience.
    that eventually broke down to everybody trying to squeeze every pound out of a skydiver for 1 jump, and the fun just …. sort of disappeared for most. so many people had 200 jumps and had never really done a fun jump… ever… to busy getting the next badge… just sucks…
    tunnel flying is different but similar. A captive audience and a small space requires there to be a heavy placement on keeping the student safe, hit a wall at 100 mph out of control from just 6ft hurts like hell. still when i tell you the price of an hrs tunnel hire is £690 plus 150-250 pounds PER HOUR for the couching and you can see what a captive audience will pay.. (was a nice job for 6 years lol)
    I can now see this happening at every turn within the drone market and it just makes me feel sad.. got my Mavic Pro and i was…. ohhhhh lets make some nice videos 🙂 …. (best adenoid voice) erm excuse me you can’t fly here… you can’t fly there… you can’t fly that far away…. OK says me! MR Steele is the way forward lets try this FPV thing for size. WOW great fun i love it 🙂 … erm excuse me, you can’t fly there…. you can’t fly like that…. you need a spotter…. you are looking through windows… (wtf piss off u knob) i have a horse 2 miles away and u may scare it….. theres an airport 5 miles away, that must be dangerous to the big planes at 2 thousand feet !!! and we all know that list is endless 🙁
    my point is while we create more rules and "training required" we will create more places for unscrupulous people to come in and fleece us for money, or put people with limited budget out of the hobby completely …
    yes i agree things need to be done for safety and security reasons. but that doesn’t cover 99% of people in the hobby. the police need the ability to dish out harsh penalties for breaking strict drone code rules. (flying near prisons seems to be a favourite) or flying near commercial or non commercial aircraft ??? I mean really?? We actually need to put that on paper? Don’t fly near planes? If, you did that deliberately, besides being an absolute thunderc@&t you deserve at the very least to be fined massively and scared so quickly back into reality of what you just did you bloody head spins…

    #mail so heres my #mail question Dylan.. how do we make prices for training waaaaaay lower to keep people interested and standardise the process from beginner to commercial ? it seems to me that those with "ok abilities" want the rules to be stringent to keep the new people in the hobby down the ladder so to speak (stop themselves losing revenue) as opposed to those like yourself who’s work speaks for itself and your own reputation/reviews precede you?
    sorry for going on… im getting my popcorn for this one 🙂

  10. peter hughes on November 8, 2021 at 9:29 am

    Hi Dylan, thanks for the video. I agree that insurance IS an important issue that needs to be resolved, perhaps with some sort of premium scale that is adjustable according to the type of flying being undertaken, eg commercial or for pleasure and the age and experience of the pilot. I guess the powers that be will deliberate on this and all the other issues and we will be informed in due course. Catch you later and take care. Peter

  11. superowl91 on November 8, 2021 at 9:30 am

    to get a PFCO you have to undertake training at a CAA approved traing facility. These CAA approved places charge between £1000-£2500 and if after training you prove that you are competent to use a drone the training provider will give you the recommendation to apply to the CAA for a PFCO. Now seeing as the approved trainer is also the examiner it would be interesting to know the failure rates of these training providers as it could be implied that they are under pressure to pass people as they have just releived that person of up to £2500 to get them to the given standard. Also remember that the CAA also charge for the granting of PFCO why isn’t this money used to provide in-house CAA testing of PFCO applicants?

  12. Dave Jones on November 8, 2021 at 9:30 am

    Thanks Dylan, clear advice as per usual from you. Insurance I totally agree with, something every flyer should be compelled to have. My understanding is that the competence test is going to be an online process only, similar to the DJI multiple choice test. This is according to the tender invites from the CAA to provide systems for both on line tests and registration. If this is the case, there is no mention of a practical flying test so the ability of any uav pilot will not be judged.
    You mention that there may not be much difference between a pfco holder and a hobbiest, if the above turns out to be factual then the difference will remain. However, my thoughts are that if Insurance was compulsory for all, the gap between pro and hobby flyers is much closer.
    With that said, I feel that there should be some relaxation in the Law to allow Hobby flyers to be able to be able to earn from the hobby in a limited way. How this could be done would need to be worked out by all sides, I just feel that with full compliance of the regulations and insurance in place, people should not be restricted in the ability to perhaps earn something from their investment.

  13. Phantom and the Drone on November 8, 2021 at 9:34 am

    Thank you Dylan, I guess the uncertainty is for the future, and if we all stick together can help shape it. The Rochester Crane was a bit of fun, at 5am the light is fantastic and no need for filters. The best bit tho is the lack of people! Unlike Minerve 😂 Did you see Hidden Britain by Drone? They actually went to Argos! Dji really got it right!😂 I am still shocked about #mail this week, thank you just doesn’t seem enough. 👍

  14. mike brown on November 8, 2021 at 9:38 am

    You go on about insurance but I have been member of the BMFA ( British Model Flying Association) for the last 5 years and part if that membership includes £25,000,000 in respect if public liability. £10,000,000 in respect of professional indemnity. Go their website to see the entire terms. Seems like a no brainer not to join at a premium of around £35 a year. I fly drones and am interested to know if fixed wing aircraft are going to be subject to the same controls and restrictions as us. Some weigh much more than we do, travel much faster and don’t have the failsafes such as return to home that we have. The BMFA have always fought our corner so join up and get insured at least. I have nothing to do with them but it seem like a good deal to me.

  15. Coennos on November 8, 2021 at 9:39 am
  16. Outdoor Jo on November 8, 2021 at 9:40 am

    Although I usually agree with most of what you say Dylan, I have a couple of reservations on this one. For starters, no, we’re not all the same. You made comparison to drivers and yes, I see that, but I also see the difference in requirements in training, insurance and expense between someone wishing to ride a moped for fun, and someone driving a 40ft articulated lorry. See what I’m getting at here? I might fly four or five times a year just for the fun and freedom of it (stuck in a wheelchair) I get nothing more out of it than that and it took me three years to save for a low end camera drone.

    Am I going to mess about with registrations and paying out hundreds of pounds in fees and insurances? If insurance could be provided with membership of an organisation then yes. I’m a member of a trade organisation that gives me a cover of several millions in public liability so if that could cover drone use I’d be in as my only objection to insurance is cost.

    Secondly, if I’m to be forced to jump through all those hoops and pay out a swathe of cash just to continue a hobby that takes me out possibly 4 times a year, then I’m going to start earning money with it no matter what the law thinks about it, if only to recoup my expenses. I think it might be best for the commercial guys to be careful what they wish for, a sudden influx of a couple of hundred thousand competitors in the market place will not only be bad for business, but bad for reputations.

    There’s a vast gaping gulf of difference between a guy flying a massive leviathan octocopter commercially (I give you Amazon et al) and some old bloke getting pictures of wildlife and treetops a couple of times a season or a young chap performing stunts, races or whatever else the younger pilots like to do.

    in my opinion, this is an exersize in public appeasement and revenue collection. What we need to stop is Parliamentary lobbying for starters, perhaps then we all get a fair crack of the whip :o)

  17. Tyne Littledyke on November 8, 2021 at 9:42 am

    YEAH finally first !!!!

  18. Alistair Barclay on November 8, 2021 at 9:43 am

    Ian, I agree 100 % with you, every one insured for public liability and every one takes written test, commercial pilot practical test as well, and commercial insurance to also cover ,accident and indemnity insurance

  19. Robert Phillips on November 8, 2021 at 9:46 am

    I think that if you are safe and you how dangerous they can be and all so where can we fly as all I can find its all caution on the maps can or cant fly and its daft that I can fly round house but not in parks also know people and god birds trees all most lost of thing are in parks
    I am also willing to take anything to get to fly batter I have 5 dji drones I think I can trust them in safety but I have 2 parrot drone which need more attention as you are keep you eyes on they and be able to fly better and they are more dangerous then the ones you will register
    I am waning to know where I can fly
    one more thing they as bin birds flying for a long time and they can be more likely to kill more people then a drones

  20. Alan Reid on November 8, 2021 at 9:47 am

    I think there needs to be a split between commercial and hobby.

    Maybe they need to have basic competency test, then a further one for commercial with less restrictions. But as you said, both should be insured – more experience etc should result in lower premiums.

  21. Marc Wolf on November 8, 2021 at 9:47 am

    Making the commercial and hobbyist pilots jump the same hoops must mean we call all charge for those images (I did the flight training but steered clear of the pfco).
    I agree we should have insurance, it’s surprised me how many people shut up when you show them your insurance docs (mines on my phone) but what concerns me is that the insurance industry are greedy b******s and we will find the price creeping up once it’s a requirement, also what about club insurance will that be removed so that all individuals have their own?

    I think an online test of the ANO and how it relates to the weight class your UAV is in during a registration process (which once complete would remove software blocks on height and distance – DJI Beginner mode type). Once your registered with your manufacturer you can prove your understanding of the ANO and if you do something stupid you have no option to claim lack of knowledge.
    I fly almost every day for shits and giggles around my home and its getting close to where I just wont bother, I have other cameras that I use and will end up leaving the mavic on it’s shelf….

  22. Joe Simpson on November 8, 2021 at 9:47 am

    Just so long as they don’t charge anywhere near £1500 for the course like they do for pfco… if they do there’ll be one less flier in the sky.

  23. Bene C on November 8, 2021 at 9:48 am

    Oh boy I hope that your government gets it act together and works it all out so when ours start playing around they might get it right ha ha stay safe see ya

  24. SC 199 on November 8, 2021 at 9:48 am

    #mail, #mail, hi Dylan, keep up the great work flying the drone flag for us all, we’ve seen question on national trust and heritage, how about we look at the good side, would you like to give your views and explain the crown estates and how them letting us use the land can be a plus for us dronies.

    https://www.thecrownestate.co.uk/en-gb/what-we-do/on-the-land-and-coast/coastal/metal-detecting-and-drone-flying/

  25. RetsetVX on November 8, 2021 at 9:53 am

    I agree that we should all be insured but not that we need a PFCO to achieve this. I am in the BMFA and membership includes excellent 3rd party cover which is in force anywhere I choose to fly my model aircraft or drones for recreational use. However, it does not cover non-recreational flying (eg an unpaid roof inspection). For this I use the BMFA’s Data Development and Demonstration Flights insurance which, essentially covers me for non-paid commercial type work (an oxymoron but you see what I mean).

  26. Rick Powell on November 8, 2021 at 9:56 am

    I’m not in favor of mandatory insurance at all. They’ll Jack it up as high as they can if it’s mandatory. They are the biggest most crooked people out there.No way leave that like it is.And yes I’m already insured.

  27. IndyKurt on November 8, 2021 at 9:57 am

    If a father finds it good to purchase the newest Mavic for his child to fly in the back yard…or estate, He has to get insurance, for the 6 times the brat will play with it next year. Another thing, the cab driver spends a considerably more amount of time on the road and drives in the worst places, his insurance should be a lot more than grandma who gets her groceries every week, oh and bingo night. I dont think I would expect my 103 counterpart to get any insurance at all unless you are a fan of insurance companies growing, then of course they can lobby the government to hit 103 with their big stick to drop some coin. That is the point of the masses anyway, to shrink the 103 as the 107 stand by and say YES. Sorry 107, they are after us next. Not a fan of MORE regulations tightening the grip

  28. Stuss H on November 8, 2021 at 9:58 am

    Hi Dylan right post. But wrong video. So appologies.

    Do you recommend gimbal guards . I tried gimbal cover got the dreaded gimbal overload.
    Heat generated. Probably fried the ribbon. Have you got a recommendation.

  29. brian forward on November 8, 2021 at 9:58 am

    yet ANOTHER good vid.public liability a must .before I retired I used to use my quad to inspect chimney stacks guttering saves taking ladders and I had avid to show the client.PROGRESS HAS MADE THINGS MORE DIFFICULT.(always the way red tape)
    I SAW THE Writing ON THE WALL LONG TIME AGO AND BROUGHT UP BALDE MQX QUADS WELL BELLOW 250 ‘i fitted a eachine cam with TX built in and have a 10in monitor so I have the best of both worlds.NO REGISTRATION NEEDED.UNLIKE MY Blade QX QUAD.PHANTOM 1 then there’s the home made 350 NO GPS OR FANCY STUFF ITS PURE FLYING ON STICKS .and of course theres the helicopters 2 sub 250 and 1 @ 350 + LOOKS LIKE IM GOING TO HAVE TO REGISTER A LOT OF RC MODELS .heres A POINT
    IF YOU TAKE A COMPETENCY TEST AND YOU PASS IT AND YOU TOOK IT IN A QUAD DOES THAT LICENCE ENTITLE YOU TO FLY A HELI OR A FIX WING WHICH IS A LOT HARDER (thats ruffled a few feathers)OR will it be a written multiple choice online test that you could get a ringer to take for you .WELL THERES A LOT TO THINK ABOUT

  30. Dave Bowman on November 8, 2021 at 9:59 am

    The problem is that the current situation isn’t policed, so muppet pilots that insist on flying in stupid places and endangering life will continue to do so. The same goes for commercial operations – no one polices it so the PfCo isn’t really worth the paper it’s written on. I know, I have one, and there’s no end of pilots without PfCo’s taking jobs for payment. The CAA won’t deal with it and say to contact the police. The police don’t care and are overstretched as it is. So it’s all a bit pointless. Should anyone with a drone be allowed to work commercially? That’s a tricky one. I’m sure a lot of PfCo holders would be against it as it will drive the market down for them, similar to what digital photography has done to the professional market. I’d say that it’s inevitable though as drones become ever more popular and more people own them. Unless a robust system is put in place that efficiently and suitably penalises offenders (drone confiscation or the ability to brick them remotely), the cowboys will continue unabated. Interesting times, but not much fun for those trying to make any sort of living from aerial work.

  31. MAV KEB on November 8, 2021 at 10:01 am

    All valid comments and useful info as usual Dylan but more questions than answers unfortunately – sigh….🤔

  32. footlaunch1 on November 8, 2021 at 10:03 am

    Considering the civil aviation authority stated that they believed that there were over 1.5 million drones sold in the UK last year it would be impossible for them to operate a competency system it just would not work.
    They have a job as it is and certainly don’t have the staff or funds to implement.

  33. didactylos4 diddy4 on November 8, 2021 at 10:03 am

    Yep. Depends on the nature of the proposed competency tests. I’ll wait for the details before fretting/getting angry/laughing ( _delete as appropriate_ )
    I have to admit the flying regs make me shrug.
    I am allowed legally to drive a 20lb/9kg, 2.5 ft long RC truck capable of 50mph+ in or around most public spaces including some skate parks…… _I don’t but I’m allowed to_
    Most people think cameras on a rc car are "interesting" or worse, "cute"
    I wonder which could do the most damage. Said truck or my micro skyhunter which has a pusher prop, is made of foam and weighs in at between 350 to 380gm flying weight? The latter will need registration and, probably, competency tests
    The former doesn’t and isn’t banned from most public open spaces.
    Safety isn’t really a factor Neither it seems is privacy

  34. brian forward on November 8, 2021 at 10:04 am

    yet ANOTHER good vid.public liability a must .before I retired I used to use my quad to inspect chimney stacks guttering saves taking ladders and I had avid to show the client.PROGRESS HAS MADE THINGS MORE DIFFICULT.(always the way red tape)
    I SAW THE Writing ON THE WALL LONG TIME AGO AND BROUGHT UP BALDE MQX QUADS WELL BELLOW 250 ‘i fitted a eachine cam with TX built in and have a 10in monitor so I have the best of both worlds.NO REGISTRATION NEEDED.UNLIKE MY Blade QX QUAD.PHANTOM 1 then there’s the home made 350 NO GPS OR FANCY STUFF ITS PURE FLYING ON STICKS .and of course theres the helicopters 2 sub 250 and 1 @ 350 + LOOKS LIKE IM GOING TO HAVE TO REGISTER A LOT OF RC MODELS .heres A POINT
    IF YOU TAKE A COMPETENCY TEST AND YOU PASS IT AND YOU TOOK IT IN A QUAD DOES THAT LICENCE ENTITLE YOU TO FLY A HELI OR A FIX WING WHICH IS A LOT HARDER (thats ruffled a few feathers)OR will it be a written multiple choice onlin
    e test that you could get a ringer to take for you .WELL THERES A LOT TO THINK ABOUT

  35. Mark on November 8, 2021 at 10:05 am

    So in your line of thought a bicyclist, skateboarder, rc car driver, and everything of the such should have insurance? There is a huge difference between recreation and profession!

  36. mcmediaandfilm on November 8, 2021 at 10:08 am

    All valid points when the registration application became known in the public domain , I mentioned that if a pfco holders has spent a good deal.of money to gain his/her pfco …then the caa announce a registration scheme where some basic training is needed by the pilot …that will upset alot of pfco holders if a hobbiest will basically be recognised as the same as a pfco holder……facebook will be awash with post for drone services…almost pushing the guys that invested thousands out of the market we are already seeing alot give up the commercial aspect based on red tape…

  37. Dragonfly Images on November 8, 2021 at 10:10 am

    Hi Dylan. Spot on concerning insurance. I couldn’t agree more.

  38. Adam Shinwell on November 8, 2021 at 10:10 am

    Hey Dylan, good video. Don’t know if you’re aware but DJI have recently set up a platform (NODE) designed to be a hub for responsible drone pilots to share their views on the upcoming legislation with a view to having a voice at the table before plans are finalised. They plan to gather the views of the community in a single place and take these directly to the decision makers to ensure a fair and sensible approach is taken that works for all and protects the future of the industry. I’d encourage everyone to check it out, sign up and share your thoughts.

    https://www.nodecampaign.org/eu

  39. Alan Jackson on November 8, 2021 at 10:10 am

    Interesting how different Government organisations work at different speeds. There have been have few drone incidents of any importance and yet the CAA has gone overboard and produced mountains of paperwork.
    The situation on the water, however, is more dangerous and anyone can, and do, go out and buy a very powerful speedboat and drive/clown around in congested seaways with no relevant basic seamanship/navigational training or insurance.
    There are literally thousands of incidents and, many deaths, involving misuse of boats, yachts, inflatable toys every year around the coast of U.K. NOTHING is ever done to try and control the situation by legislation.
    Sorry if my comment is a bit off piste, but as a responsible amateur drone flyer who follows all the current codes and rules, I think that we are being victimised.
    Great informative videos, thank you. AJ

  40. Sam Blight on November 8, 2021 at 10:11 am

    #mail What additional tech/safety features do you think would be required on drones to make flying beyond line of sight safe and practical. Do you think this will ever be available for consumer drones?
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC080Z9yExIIBW04JZ3vwbTQ

  41. STIGu1993 on November 8, 2021 at 10:12 am

    Ok, there are a lot of iressponsible (or just idiotic) drone pilots. They are causing a mess, that’s why suddenly we have to be licensed. That is easy. Big question is, how much this "amatour pilot license" would cost? Because the commercial one if i’m not mistaking, costs around 1200f? So I expect around 500 to get qualified to fly drones anywhere. Now think, cheap drones cost around 100f. And you need to have a license and insurrance, for a lot more. Doesn’t that sound, as a way to make money covered by idea of safety? Just thinking 😉 I’m an amatour drone operator but my videos are on YT what technicaly makes me commercial pilot. But that is not my point. I have an idea that flying around airports or a military places is a dumb idea. But some operators do that. Now because drones are so cheap and easy to get, problems will start because to many people got them already..

  42. warrior 67 on November 8, 2021 at 10:13 am

    Hi Dylan I think we all need insurance and that was a great #mail question. Keep up the great work and YouTube wouldn’t be the same without you 🤘🏻👍🏻

  43. Marshalls Music on November 8, 2021 at 10:14 am

    What’s the difference between a BMFA or FPV Uk recreational liability insurance costing around £20-40 and a CAA approved commercial only EC 785/204 costing 10 times more !? Surely both cover the same thing ?

  44. david john Pickford on November 8, 2021 at 10:16 am

    GREAT VID AS ALWAYS YES WE ALL SHOULD HAVE INSURANCE .I HAVE MINE AND I AM STILL LEARNING TO FLY

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